The Glamorous Grind
The Glamorous Grind is where bold legal minds meet unfiltered conversations. Join hosts Ilona Antonyan and Mila Arutunian—powerhouse attorneys at Antonyan Miranda—for this dynamic podcast as they dive into headline-making lawsuits, past cases, and the hustle of balancing career, family, and ambition. With fascinating guests, including celebrities, business leaders, and former clients, Ilona and Mila keep it raw, real, and always glamorous.
The Glamorous Grind
Love's Legal Labyrinth: Chao's Story
Have you ever found yourself swept off your feet only to land in a maze of legal drama? This episode features Chao Qi, a former client of Ilona's and a man with a fascinating story of romance and resilience. After meeting his ex-wife on a Latin dating website, what seemed like a fairy tale quickly unraveled into a six-month marriage and a two-year legal battle. Chao courageously opens up about the red flags he missed, the emotional and financial strains he endured, and how his experience is a powerful reminder of the gritty reality behind romantic facades. His journey is not only a cautionary tale but also a testament to the strength and perseverance needed to reclaim one's life.
We navigate the complex world of family law in California, emphasizing the critical role of prenuptial agreements to guard against the unforeseen challenges of divorce litigation. Our conversation with Chao sheds light on how the judicial system can be manipulated, with insights into the tactics some use to exploit legal protections. Chao's story highlights the societal stigma men face when coming forward as victims, and serves as a warning about the potential for false accusations and the misuse of legal avenues for personal gain. His experiences offer a sobering look at how relationships can go awry and the importance of being prepared and protected.
Chao's path to recovery and healing is both compelling and inspiring. We explore the deep wounds left by toxic relationships and the road to overcoming them, drawing parallels with dramatic narratives straight out of a TV show. Chao shares how the unwavering support of friends and family helped him find solace and rebuild his identity. This episode resonates with anyone facing similar struggles, underscoring the importance of self-care, the power of genuine connections, and the courage it takes to move forward. Whether you're intrigued by legal drama or seeking hope in adversity, Chao's story is a powerful reminder of resilience in the face of immense challenges.
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I'm sure people out there who's listening to this - How can a lawyer be that stupid?
Mila:I don't think you were stupid.
Ilona:She told you that she was allergic to condoms, then she was allergic to sperm, and then she wanted you to get a vasectomy.
Chao:It felt like somebody else was kind of tugging the strings and I'm just some mannequin walking around through the world, right?
Ilona:She was recording you and setting you up and filed a frivolous restraining order against you. Then you filed one against her as well, so you had mutual restraining orders against each other.
Mila:The
Ilona:Welcome to the Glamorous Grind, where the courtroom meets the catwalk and ambition never goes out of style.
Mila:We're your hosts, Ilona and Mila, two powerhouse attorneys, and your personal guides to the wild ride of legal drama and real life hustle.
Ilona:Every week, we're unpacking our most jaw-dropping cases and showing you how we balance big dreams, family chaos and a whole lot of sparkle, whether you're chasing your own big goals or just here for the shocking twists.
Mila:Pour yourself a cup and join us for the perfect blend of grit and glamour. It's law, it's life, it's the Glamorous Grind. This week, we are starting off with a segment we like to call Past Cases Present Drama, where we take a walk down memory lane to revisit our most unforgettable cases.
Ilona:And to make it even more exciting, we're bringing in a special guest to share his experience firsthand.
Mila:We are so excited to welcome Chao Qi on the program.
Ilona:Chao is one of my former family law clients and he has quite a story to tell. He met his ex-wife on the Latin dating website. He was married for a short period of time just six months but his divorce lasted over two years because his wife made claims to everything. We'll talk to him about the situation, the red flags he didn't notice at the time, the long legal battle and how the situation affected Chow nine years later. Today's guest is Chao Qi.
Chao:Yeah, thanks for having me on the show, Ilona.
Ilona:What are you doing nowadays?
Chao:I still work in intellectual property. I was an intellectual property attorney and now I help manage a small IP and tech consulting firm here in San Diego.
Ilona:Single ladies if you're interested. I'm sorry but I just had to say it because you are a catch, but the lady that was in your life years ago didn't appreciate you took total advantage of you, dragged you through court for two years after only six months of a marriage. So you have an interesting story to share to, I think, help people who are out there in the dating world protect themselves from those who are cunning and want to take advantage of them when all you want is to find love and someone to care for you. You gave your all, but you know love and someone to care for you. You gave your all, but you know she was a sneaky bee.
Chao:Everything got so messy so fast. So basically, I had met my ex-wife on an online dating website.
Ilona:LatinCupidcom. I wonder if they're still around.
Chao:LatinAmericanCupidcom. Oh okay, yeah, something like that. I'm sure they're still around. When I was in business school, we went on an overseas trip where we do a project in another country and I had done mine in South America. So we went to Peru and Argentina and I had a great time with my classmates and my professors there and obviously the women there are very friendly. So I was like, oh, it would be nice to have a South American girlfriend. So I signed up for a South American dating website, which was probably not the smartest thing to do at the time, but you don't ever know, right.
Ilona:I think another interesting part about your story, from what I recall, is how she seduced you.
Chao:I had first met her. You know, I flew out there to meet her and the first thing that happened was that she had, like, asked me to just shower with her. I'm kind of a shy person. I'm a very big introvert and I'm very shy. I remember we slept in the same bed but nothing happened. I was just frozen.
Ilona:How did you sleep? Yeah, you were saving yourself for a marriage. And then she seduced you that day In the morning, didn't she say so, are you going to marry me now?
Chao:By the end of the trip, like obviously we had slept together and she had said something along the lines of like, oh, you know, you're going to leave and you're only here for your week of fun, and I'm just like that's not true, right? It's not like I'm here to take advantage of you or anything.
Ilona:But I remember she pulled the guilt card like wanted to use me, sort of a deal. What about now that we've slept together?
Chao:When she says that. I think it is kind of manipulative and trying to like guilt you into, into expediting something right.
Ilona:Yeah, I remember through the divorce proceeding that came up that you know she was incentivized by learning about your potential and, more importantly, a lot of women from other countries they would love to come to United States and get a green card, and that's what happened with you too, right?
Chao:My ex-wife suggested that her friends you know take me out and show me around. So I went out with them and they had asked me you know what I did? And I told them and what I was going to do in the future. And they had asked well, you know, well, how much are you going to make?
Mila:So I told them so, like basically coming from a non-family law perspective, this woman comes in, gets married to you. How long between the time you met her and, like you, got married?
Chao:Probably around six months as well.
Mila:So six months later, you're married to someone you barely know. Six months after that, you're getting a divorce and then, two years down the line, she is fighting you for your family's properties. There was so much manipulation.
Ilona:She had you paying all her parents' expenses in Colombia on your credit cards.
Chao:When I got my job, you know, I said, hey, you know her mom needed some surgery on her eyes. You know they had like living expenses they weren't have. They didn't have money for food. So I said, you know, I'm just, I can issue credit cards under my account, under their name, and we ended up shipping that over to her parents and her parents used that for for that's so kind of expenses.
Ilona:And then I remember her father ended up flying to our trial and testifying in court that they are entitled to the homes that your mom owns. Do you remember that?
Chao:Honestly, it was just a constant mess. It felt like that. It was like a web of crap that I could not, you know, get out of Right. I was just trapped in it.
Mila:What did your mom think when you told her you were planning to bring her over?
Chao:my mom was fine with it.
Ilona:I mean my, mom didn't know what she was going to be dealing with my mom's been through a lot, um, you know, and I feel really bad.
Ilona:She was very supportive of him throughout the whole thing. I mean, as the mother you obviously would feel bad that your son got. You know somebody's treating your child like this. I mean you you're not a child anymore, but to her you always will be. And on top of it, they were trying to rob her through court by making claims to her down payment that his mother worked hard for through her life to purchase an asset. They were trying to take it away from your family, from your mom, after just six months of marriage, just because of that marriage license. And it's like getting married in California gives you a bunch of obligations like fiduciary duties, disclosure of all assets, community interest. So you know, for those who have assets, if you're bringing someone from out of the country, get a prenup and, you know, make it bulletproof and don't add their names to titles until they've you know marriage is proven. You know I actually printed copies of the paperwork we filed with the court a long time ago.
Chao:Oh boy I know.
Ilona:Let me just refresh some of your memory about some of the facts. Your wife handed you her personal journal on a pen and said that to prove your love, you must give her the real properties that you own with your mom. And she instructed you to write that down. And in shock and desperation, you did what she said to prove your love and affection. And we proved that in court. You ended up winning. You had to litigate that because she made this claim that she's entitled to it. Here's what the note said, and then we'll discuss it. It here's what the note said, and then we'll discuss it. I, zhao Qi, hereby bequeath unto my wife blank name, the entirety of my undivided interest of the property located at, along with any accounts associated with the property, etc. And it was. She had to sign it and she dictated it to you. What was that like to be taken advantage of like this?
Chao:Well, first of all, I'm sure people out there who's listening to this, how can a lawyer be that stupid? For one, and you know, admittedly it was wanted her parents to move out here and stay somewhere. So they were going to stay in that property and we had just gotten that one, but we were fighting so much that I was actually sleeping in the other property, you know, in my car, in the garage, because we didn't have any furniture or anything at the time. You know I wasn't getting any rest, it was just constant bickering. She would call me like 20 times a day at work and if I answer it's a fight, If I don't answer it's a fight. You know, it's just so much stuff to do, especially at a very stressful job at the time too.
Mila:I just want to say, like you said, it was stupid. I don't think you were stupid. I think you were in love. And I think there's a big difference between that, because you know, it sounds like you were a good person with good intentions. And I think when you're in that state of mind, especially when you're sleep deprived I've had three babies, I've had times where I didn't sleep for weeks your brain doesn't think logically and you were probably just hoping like, maybe if I just do this one thing, maybe everything will change, maybe everything will get better if I just do this one thing, and I don't know. I hope you don't blame yourself for that or feel like you were at fault for that, because it sounds like you were manipulated beyond your control.
Ilona:You know I did find the part in the judgment where which was oh my God, it was one, two, three, four, five, six day trial. The court does not believe respondent's testimony. That is her testimony that petitioner you, the petitioner's mother intended these funds as a gift to her parents, but they flew all the way here from Colombia and had the audacity to try to French. Take your mom's hard earnings.
Mila:It sounds like the court, you know, did its justice. But it's a shame, it's a damn shame that it took two years of your life to get to that, to get to that.
Chao:So I had a debit card associated with my mom's bank account and when we separated, my ex-wife had taken out everything from our condo including the card. And she found the card and she knows what PIN number I use for my cards right, I just use the same PIN number and she went around different ATMs in San Diego withdrawing money from my mom's bank account and I just don't understand how anyone can do something like that, Karma is a bitch.
Ilona:She brought a boyfriend a new boyfriend during her trial. Right Was sitting and watching the trial. He was wearing Gucci belt, louis Vuitton. She always finds the rich guys.
Chao:You had pointed this out that she was wearing like.
Ilona:Louisitton shoes and that like you're like, like, look at her shoes. I'm like what came along poor and she was asking for all or for saying I have no income, I have no money, I can't support myself. But then she's wearing fancy stuff to court.
Chao:I'm like well, you had asked me did I buy her those shoes? I'm like no, I don't know where those came from, you know?
Mila:I do want to say something about your mom, because you said you feel bad and I just want to tell you from a mom's perspective and I think Alona will agree Like we are like lions protecting our children. So, even though she went through a lot, I guarantee you she wouldn't have it any other way and her main priority is that you're safe and away from this like disgusting fiend that tried to destroy you.
Chao:I mean that's that's great of her, but that doesn't take away any of how I feel about about it Right, like I carry like an immense amount of guilt that you know I basically Now preventing her from enjoying her retirement and you know all the emotional and kind of financial issues that we have these days is a direct consequence of my decision to get involved.
Mila:You were a victim. You did not make a decision because you weren't informed. You can't make a decision if you don't know the facts. So please stop blaming yourself, because it's not your fault.
Ilona:Let me just make you feel better about this whole thing, about her wasting her retirement, the fact that you kept your properties, which you were entitled to, but you had to fight for it, and you had them since a long time ago. In California real estate appreciated a lot. So whatever was spent on litigation, I'm sure that in terms of appreciation relative to your loan, that has all been made up. So your mom, if she want to refinance or pull a line of credit or anything else, I think is still going to be better off today than back then because of the market.
Mila:So really like I think from my perspective again not having practiced in family law the lesson here is get a fucking prenup. Everyone else who's out there right now in similar situations, where they are in love, having great intentions, like really believing in the person they're marrying, like don't trust. Get a prenup right, like that's In California divorce is expensive.
Ilona:It's so easy to go get a marriage license for I don't know 20 bucks at a cost nowadays, but it's going to cost you hundreds of thousands of dollars and people can make up bullshit claims and raise them in court and, unlike in civil court, where you can file a motion for summary or judgment, demur get rid of claims that aren't supported by evidence, in family court you cannot get rid of any claims until you get to trial. You're forced to go through with it and you have a choice to either have a lawyer help you or do it alone.
Chao:Yeah, I think that was the biggest shock going into family court is that ultimately it's like a he said, she said, argument right, and they can come up with any sort of arguments.
Ilona:So she worked hard at trying to, you know, make her strengthen her connections with potential witnesses, incentivize them as well to come and lie in court and unfortunately, you know, people often lie in family court. District attorney's office doesn't prosecute people for perjuring themselves in family court.
Mila:And that's always like my big issue with the American judicial system. I love the American judicial system. I think it's great. I think you know the protections we have for people are amazing. But then it's always the balance of like letting people have their day in court, letting people be heard, making sure everyone has their due process, but is it too much? Is it too much Because at the end of the day, you have very costly services and you know everyone sues everyone. My grandma always says like because we're from russia, and she's always like half of these lawsuits would be arrested in russia for fraud, because it's such bullshit and she's right and most other countries like it does not fly.
Chao:I mean for me. It's also a shock that she goes around painting this image of me as, like this horrible person that will do anything within my power to you know, hurt her right and people believe her. In fact, I've lost friends over this because she had help.
Mila:I've spent 20 minutes with you and I can't imagine anyone would believe that no, but she manipulative.
Ilona:people do that.
Chao:And at the time, actually, regarding the testimony in court, there was an instance where she had brought our handyman right, who she was living with at the time, and, yeah, he had said that I wasn't providing them any money. And you had, like, cross-examined him and they talked.
Ilona:Somehow you got him to admit that yeah the court made a specific finding that they find mr isaac I'm not gonna say his last name his testimony not credible. Is that the handyman?
Chao:yeah, that's a handyman, because alona just kind of like gripped into him because he had paid for like a vacation for her to go to like puerto rico or something she worked, everybody from handyman to all the way yeah, if you're a man, she worked it and I guess she ended up giving her engagement ring to him.
Ilona:There's one thing about your case that I still remember. That's almost unbelievable, but it was believable while you were living through it, because she was that manipulative. She told you that she is allergic to condoms, then she was allergic to sperm and then she wanted you to get a vasectomy.
Chao:She had talked about how her ex-boyfriend got a vasectomy quote unquote for her, because you know she's allergic to taking birth control pills. She's like, you know, did you ever think about, you know, just getting a vasectomy because it would make things easier? And I said, you know that's kind of. I said I remember like saying, don't you think that's kind of like manipulative, like why would you want me to change? As time went on, you know, she just kind of lost it and she just said it's like word for word you know you need to get that fucking surgery, I'm never having sex with you again. And like, stomped out of the room and went to go sleep on the couch. I'm like I don't know where this is coming from. I said, you know, I know I'll get the surgery, but then, like later on she'll message me. It's like, oh, you know, I just want you to do it only if you're comfortable.
Ilona:But like behind the scenes, she was pressuring you and didn't she actually make you do it like a week into your marriage, once you got married?
Chao:Yeah, so I ended up getting the surgery a week like after we got married.
Ilona:And you wouldn't do it but for pressuring you right.
Chao:Pretty much, yeah. I mean I wouldn't say like she made me do it right, Because I can still act out of my own free will.
Mila:And it sounds like you had great intentions. I mean, I have two boys and my biggest fear because I think the biggest decision you make in life is who you end up spending your life with, and it is when you're a good person it's such a slippery slope to get screwed. But it sounds like you had great intentions. You wanted to give your all and share your life with someone and build a family and you just ended up, unfortunately, stepping into a trap.
Ilona:So what advice would you give to someone who may find themselves in a similar situation?
Chao:Well, first of all, I hope no one's ever in a situation like this. It's not a good feeling to have and I don't wish that on anybody. I think definitely take things at your own pace. Don't get pressured into speeding things up just because one person wants to Do your due diligence. One person wants to do your due diligence. You know, if you look them up on court records and they have multiple filings against them, that's probably not a good sign. You know she had litigation against, I think, two of her tenants, then me, then the doctor that she tried to get fired from his job because they had met, met on tinder and um, and he wanted to separate from her and she lost it and started, you know, stalking him at work and at his home and stuff. And I mean you know there's stuff like how did that guy reach out to you.
Ilona:And how did that guy reach out to you?
Chao:it was the last day of work at my last law firm that I worked at and I was literally about to shut everything down and I had an email in my inbox from somebody. I was like what is this? I thought it was just spam emails. I opened it and the email read something like hi Chow, you don't know me, but this is urgent, please call me at this number. So I call him Hi, yeah, I'm Chow. And then he's like yeah, you know, you don't know me.
Chao:But um, long story short, I had met your ex-wife on tinder. We had been going out, for I think they were going out for like three months, maybe half a year at the time, and things didn't work out. I wanted to separate from her. But then she started, you know, she kind of just lost it and she was calling his job. She called his supervisor at his work saying that he was violating some HIPAA laws by divulging, you know, confidential patient information to her. But and then she had like, called his mom in the middle of the night to yell at her and call her an old hag, and she was stalking him at his house and all this, all this crazy stuff, and he was just uh, he just didn't know what to do or who to turn to, and kind of similar story with with the tenants that she had. You know, eventually they all find their way to me somehow.
Ilona:It still hurts. You know it still hurts. What do you think could make that pain go away?
Chao:It's just something that you have to accept as part of who you are, and it's an experience, good or bad. I think you try to find the good from it and you try to learn from the bad, the good from it and you try to learn from the bad, and you know just if you you had asked you you know what you can do if you find yourself in these situations and if you are and you've gotten past one, or you've had been in a series of of poor relationships. I think a lot of it is dependent on you to take a look at yourself and figure out what draws you to these relationships and why you're attracted to people like this. You just have to be careful out there and not be so naive to think that everybody in the world has the best intentions for you.
Ilona:When you meet people, you don't right away assume they have a personality disorder. You start seeing red flags. Then you get an argument. Some people may draw you in because they can be charming and they're good at making up and going overboard. I mean, I personally was married for four months. We're lawyers, we're smart. It doesn't matter how smart you are when it comes to matters of heart. We'll all make mistakes and we can be fooled by people who you know are just better at playing you.
Ilona:So you know, I also fell for someone who I thought was charming. I also got married quick because I'm like, okay, I waited, you know, a long time. So here he comes and then ended up being a nightmare for me. But as a divorce attorney, I saw the red flags. I saw them and I also didn't do anything about them for a while. I just, you know, some things were comfortable and I just stayed in it.
Ilona:And then I got married really fast, within a couple of months of meeting him too, and my marriage then terminated fast because he was physically abusive to me and I knew that, if you know, it happens once or twice that, um, it will continue happening. We ended up getting married. I got the prenup, although at that time I was, he was making more money than I did, but I still wanted a prenup because I know that no matter how short the marriage is, it can cost you a lot of money and a lot of stress. He jumped me and choked me, like to the point where I thought I'm not going to get to say bye to my mom. I just remember thinking this is what happens, like when you die. He let go at some point and I, you know, ran, called the police, like my neck was all red, but I didn't want to press charges against him because he was a doctor.
Ilona:You know I filed for divorce shortly thereafter. This happened on March 31st 2016. I filed for divorce on April 1st. I ended up paying him just to make this divorce go away although I probably legally didn't owe him anything because I didn't want to go through what you went through. So my advice to people is if there is any domestic violence I know you were a victim of domestic violence, because domestic violence comes in many forms. It's emotional abuse, putting someone down, controlling them, isolating them from family and friends. It's not just physical abuse, and men are often victims of domestic violence as well, like you were, because you did get a restraining order against her. But they're less likely to come forward because it's more embarrassing for men to go and file it against women. It's more frequent where it's done the other way around.
Chao:After I'd gone through this, I went online to look for support groups that maybe I could relate to or could provide some sort of comfort to me citizens who go through the same type of thing, where you know they have somebody from a foreign country coming in whose intentions are to ultimately get a green card, with no actual intention to really stay in a relationship, and what they do is they will incite some sort of reaction out of the person and then they'll use that reaction as a means to file a restraining order or a lawsuit against them, saying that they've been abused and, through certain acts within the immigration system, they're able to pursue their own path towards immigration within the United States.
Chao:And at the time I was volunteering for a pro bono legal immigration clinic here in San Diego called Casa Cornelia, of which I did a lot of work for, and throughout my experiences in law school and within my law firm, I did a lot of work trying to help out, you know, particularly women of domestic violence, and it just, you know, really made me question what I was doing because I thought, hey, you know, if my ex-wife can do and say some of these things, you know, maybe some of my clients don't have the best intentions and I think that's really hurtful because as an attorney you know you want to do what's best for your client and to advocate for them.
Chao:So when you kind of have that doubt in your mind it's really difficult to carry on that work. And I think it's really unfortunate because these laws are made to protect people real victims but unfortunately by having these protections it allows people with malintentions to come in and take advantage of the system and even clog up the system and make it so where real victims don't even have an avenue towards the justice or help that they need.
Ilona:Yeah, thank you for sharing that. I mean that is absolutely true. I did an immigration internship a long time ago and I helped victims of domestic violence and helped them file for U visas. In this case, in my recollection, and that was like 20 years ago, I did this. You probably have. More recent knowledge is that if you're married to a US citizen for three years, you can get a permanent green card and then, if you're married to five years, you can file for citizenship without the US citizen helping you file it. But if someone doesn't want to be committed to a marriage for three years to five years, then the way to get documents if they don't have sincere intentions and are here to just get legalized in a country is to fake a domestic violence incident, record them like what happened to you, set you up and then file for restraining order and use that with the federal authorities to claim you're a victim of domestic violence.
Chao:I think you just have to have a higher standard, like you said in court, about telling the truth and being able to provide evidence to back that up, and that's another thing that I think maybe I could have done better was keep documentation of stuff before she was able to, you know, take my phone and throw it away, basically.
Ilona:You know, another thing that happened to you that tarnished your reputation unjustly was that someone like your ex-wife went on social media and proclaimed to be a victim of domestic violence, making false accusations, you know, ruining your reputation, and people that were your friends turn away from you. Can you talk more about that?
Chao:Yeah, I think it goes to just back to kind of her ability to spin the story and to be manipulative, right? For instance, her ability to spin the story and to be manipulative, right? For instance, on International Women's Day this was in March, while we were still married she had come up to me and said hey, you know, do you know what today is? I'm like no, and this is early in the morning and I'm planning on going to work. She's like, oh, it's International Women's Day. I'm like, oh, yeah, I mean I knew that, but you know. I asked her why. And she's like well, do you have anything planned? I said, you know, blank face, no, I didn't have anything planned. I'm like was there something you wanted to do? And she said well, you know, in my country it's a very important day where all the guys take, you know, buy flowers for their girlfriends and take them out to nice dinners and stuff. And I said, oh, I mean, that's fine, like we can go out to dinner. So when I got to the office, the first thing I did was call in for uh, call in um a flower shop to get her like a bouquet. I made a reservation at a nice restaurant for us to go to dinner and I told her it's like, hey, you know we're gonna go here and um, and then she started responding on whatsapp. It's like no, I just want you to come home early. All I care about is spending time with you and all the sweet stuff.
Chao:And I'm like, okay, but you know, I already made the reservation, we're going. You know, like I meant it as like a let's go, we already, you know, we already settled for this. But the way that she presented it she ended up posting a screenshot, I think, on Instagram online, like that it was that I was forcing her to go to this night's dinner and all she wanted was to spend time with me. And the responses to that were like, oh, this is such a dumb, rich Chinese guy. He doesn't know what he has and stuff. And that's very hurtful, because I was just trying to give her what she asked for, right, and what they don't know is.
Chao:I did come home early that day to spend time with her and I brought her the flowers and she said, well, we don't need to go to the dinner.
Chao:I said, that's fine, we can cancel the dinner, but the minute I get home, you know, she just ignores me and if I try to do anything, right, like she'd just been on YouTube all day looking at makeup videos or whatever it is that she did all day and and I, you know, I would try to talk to her and she wouldn't say anything to me. So if I open up my computer to play a video game or something, she'd get very angry and she'd suddenly, just, you know, slam her laptop closed, turn off the light, and I'm and I'm just like, and if I stay on the computer, then she rolls over and, like, screams at me like you know why, why can't you let me? You can't? You see I'm trying to sleep here, you know why can't you let me rest? You know, and this is stuff that I had to deal with on a daily basis so nothing would make her happy with you.
Ilona:But ultimately it seems like things that are posted on social media are taken out of context to support the story she's trying to portray, put you in a negative light. So I think people need to be aware that whatever is posted, you really have to hear both sides of the story, and often text messages. If you don't see the rest of the story can be taken out of context. Same thing with videos and other evidence that may be presented in court. You know those who are going to try to set you up will take a piece of video or recording that may be helpful to them and not show the rest of the context where they may have done something or said something to set this off.
Ilona:And I recall we had this issue during discovery, when she had all the evidence but she wouldn't provide it, and you also mentioned, and you reminded me, that to embarrass you in the court proceeding, she tried to submit naked photographs of you in discovery.
Chao:Yeah, she basically took all the private photographs of me that she had taken or that I had provided to her, and she provided it to your law firm, and your poor associate had to be traumatized by by all of that.
Ilona:I don't remember seeing them, so we're okay.
Chao:I mean, they're out there, I guess, somewhere on your server, so hopefully at some point they can be deleted. But but yeah, I just felt like a lot of what she did was trying, you know, after we had separated.
Ilona:We didn't ask for that, she just threw it in to you know? Embarrass you.
Chao:Yeah, I felt like she just wanted to embarrass me in front of people, and that was after we separated, and before we separated she just tried to, you know, tease me and belittle me and make me feel like I had nobody in the world that I could turn to for help.
Ilona:I'm sorry men, stay away from women like that, please, and if you're not sure, come see a lawyer, even if you're not getting married. You know, when I was young I used to love watching Jerry Springer. It was very exciting to me. I would love that show, and I used to love watching Maury Povich and Ricky Lake, and I get it all now in practicing family law, and it's always different Stuff you cannot make up. You don't need to script it, it's just like real life stories, but everything that you can think of happens.
Chao:That's what I think. I think my story about this is stranger than fiction, right? I just don't know how you can make something up like this. And yeah, like another thing she said. A lot was like oh, you know, none of your friends care about you. I'm the only person that cares about you, like they're just interested because of your money or whatever. There was a lot of that going on, you know, and I did get isolated a lot from my friends, but definitely, you know, stick to your friends, because they have and family.
Chao:And family. Yeah, I'm very fortunate in that I have a very, very tight-knit and supportive friends group here now that I've kind of built up after the fact. But at the time, you know, I had just moved back to San Diego from LA and I didn't have anybody really to talk to about this stuff. I didn't have anybody really to talk to about this stuff. But now that I do, you know, I think you got to find people that you know are there, trustworthy, that you can lean on, because they'll hopefully give it to you straight if you are in a situation like this.
Ilona:I think therapy also helps, like after my experience, because I always thought, ok, I'm strong, I'm resilient, but what happened, like in my short relationship, still impacted me and I was, you know, I was dating for the next two years and I was like intentionally pushing guys away, which would be a bitch, I think, just on purpose to see how far I can push it while they still want me. And then I met this one guy and I'm still friends with. His name was Dennis and he said I went out with him like nine times and then he was really nice, we got along. But then I was just saying mean things to him like oh, you're too short, I don't want to have kids with you, and like you name it, I was not nice and he said alone, I think you're doing all this on purpose, like I've been through this before. You should go see a therapist. And he gave me a phone number for a therapist. So eventually it bothered me enough that I called the therapist that he recommended and that was the best thing that I've done for myself and I think it makes it.
Ilona:I went to her for four months and I was hungry for it, like my soul and my spark away, like telling me I'm bad and like calling me names and just like. Everything was very negative. It was taken away from who I was and all I was resisting it and my subconscious has impacted me. So I wanted to get my normal self back, like, and so I went there for months. I read all the books. She told me about verbal abuse, because you know he was verbally abusive and she did EMDR. It was very effective. They do it for cops, like when police officers shoot somebody for the first time and you know they don't want to hold a gun anymore.
Ilona:I think it will be very helpful to many people, including yourself and those who are going through a divorce. What you do is you relive the traumatic moments that are still stuck in your mind and what happens is you get desensitized to it. So, for example, what she did for me she had me close my eyes and then you know and I remember I would tell her, yeah, I would walk through the door and he would be looking at his watch like seven o'clock, 30 out of 30, you know, like failure, like go to your room, like you know, just like yelling at me and like you really live the moment and then magically. Somehow this works, that you have like zero stress, zero anxiety, zero negative feelings, like it just goes away. Whatever she did, the four months and the books that she gave me helped me a lot. Being miserable with someone and subject to their demands and making someone else happy sometimes it's just better to be alone. So if you can't find the right partner, just enjoy your life. There's so much to enjoy in this world.
Mila:It has been amazing hearing your story. I mean it sounds like you went through a lot. Again, I don't have a family law perspective on this, I wasn't part of the trial or the litigation but it sounds like you were put through the wringer. But it sounds like you also made it out alive and stronger. I always say you can't control what happens to you, but you can control your reaction to it and I'm sure in the moment it didn't feel like your reaction was great, but you're sitting here before us now stronger, better, able to talk about it with just such dignity and grace. So I appreciate your time and really appreciate you sharing your story with us. It can't be easy, and I think that this episode will really be hope for someone who may be going through toxicity now or through a heavy litigation stage of someone else who maybe treated them wrong or is suing them for things that they're not entitled to, that they too will come out of it alive, better, stronger, with lessons learned.
Chao:Yeah, thank you so much for having me and for sure, you know, I think it's important to realize that we're not alone and, for instance, when I got that call from the, from the doctor, right like I felt somewhat vindicated and but it's always a process and you never get comfortable, comfortable with it, because it's like I said, there's going to be people out there who just think I'm just a terrible person and you just have to accept that because you can't really please anybody. But the people you want to please are, you know, your friends and family, and as long as they love you, I think that's all that really matters.
Mila:I always say is hating bitches aren't and happy bitches aren't hatin'.
Chao:I don't know about that saying, but sure Sounds good to me.
Ilona:And that's it for today's episode of the Glamorous Grind. We hope you enjoyed diving into Chow's story a tale of resilience, lessons learned and twists that only life can deliver.
Mila:Next week we are turning up the drama with a new guest who found themselves at the heart of a legal scandal and came out stronger than ever.
Ilona:Remember new episodes drop every Tuesday, so mark your calendars.
Mila:Don't forget to hit subscribe, leave us a glowing review and share the glam with your friends. It's your support that's going to keep the grind going strong.
Ilona:Stay confident, stay bold and we'll see you next week on the Glamrs Grind.
