The Glamorous Grind
The Glamorous Grind is where bold legal minds meet unfiltered conversations. Join hosts Ilona Antonyan and Mila Arutunian—powerhouse attorneys at Antonyan Miranda—for this dynamic podcast as they dive into headline-making lawsuits, past cases, and the hustle of balancing career, family, and ambition. With fascinating guests, including celebrities, business leaders, and former clients, Ilona and Mila keep it raw, real, and always glamorous.
The Glamorous Grind
Big Brand Energy: Cayce Lynch on Fearless Networking
Casey Lynch, National Managing Partner at Tyson Mendes, joins us to demystify personal branding and networking with refreshing honesty and tactical wisdom. From building a firm of 40 to over 250 attorneys, Casey shares how defining your values lays the foundation for authentic leadership, meaningful relationships, and self-advocacy. We tackle networking myths, introvert-friendly strategies, rejection resilience, and the realities women face in leadership—plus insights on perfectionism, control, and growth. Whether you’re early in your career or scaling up, this episode is packed with gems to level up your professional presence.
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Networking is important, no matter what profession you're in.
Cayce:You've got to define who you want to be and what your brand to be and your values are a great place to start. I mean, my values are authenticity and faith.
Ilona:If someone walks into a room where people are mingling, having drinks and talking, how do you just pop into their conversation, into their circle and become part of it?
Cayce:You're a thought leader. You're sharing the information and you're sharing what. You're an expert in.
Ilona:It also comes down to loving yourself. What other people do will matter less, because you know what you're worth.
Cayce:How someone treats your response to you says more about them than it ever does about you.
Ilona:Welcome to the Glamorous Grind where grit meets glamour and the law is always in style. I'm Alona Antonian, a trial attorney and a certified family law specialist.
Mila:And I'm Mila Erutunian, a trial attorney who specializes in employment and personal injury law. We are lawyers, friends and your guides to real-life legal drama.
Ilona:Each week, we're breaking down unforgettable cases, sharing incredible personal journeys and sharing what keeps us motivated in our careers and personal lives.
Mila:So, whether you're hustling to make your own dreams happen or just here for a good story, settle in with your favorite drink, because we're bringing you wisdom, wit and a whole lot of style.
Ilona:It's law, it's life, it's the glamorous crowd welcome back.
Mila:Today we're going to focus on how to build an authentic personal brand, how networking plays into career success and the challenges that come with it to help us do this.
Ilona:We have a fabulous guest joining us Casey E Lynch, the National Managing Partner at Tyson Mendes.
Mila:Casey has played a huge role in shaping the firm's strategic vision, all while fostering a culture that's all about people and results. She's the mastermind behind some amazing initiatives at her firm that we are excited to ask her about, and she's not just a leader in the legal world.
Ilona:She's someone who understands the power of personal branding and networking, which is something that applies to everyone, no matter your industry and whether you're an introvert or extrovert. So let's get into it.
Mila:So, casey, thank you so much for joining us today. We're so excited to have you. I'm honored to be here. Thanks for inviting me. Tell us a little bit about yourself.
Cayce:I am the national managing partner at Tyson Mendez. We are a defense firm. It has been really, really cool to be part of a law firm that's been growing ever since I joined. When you started the firm, how many employees did it have? I think we had about 40 attorneys at the time. And what about now?
Ilona:A little over 250. Since you're managing the firm, what did you do personally to help it grow?
Cayce:Our leadership needed more hands-on support, I think, and so they looked around the firm, and I'm so grateful for this. They looked around the firm instead of hiring externally to say, who do we have that's capable and willing to work hard and believes in this business that can help us, and so they brought opportunities to me as they came up.
Mila:So one of the reasons why I really wanted you on our show and obviously you're an amazing person all around, really you are. I love following you. I was just saying we haven't seen each other in 10 years, but the great thing about social media is I feel like I haven't missed out on any part of your life.
Mila:I remember you getting married, having kids, and you probably saw me have all my kids too. But you're just like a female powerhouse from where I stand, and what is special about you to me is that there are a lot of powerful women, but a lot of women who reach a certain level of power kind of harden a little bit, and you… Harden in what way, though? I'm hardened in a way that, like I mean, we are attacked a lot and you have to build like a very tough exterior to fight that off, to make sure you can maintain your position. But what Casey's done and I haven't been able to do it, honestly is like you've maintained your authenticity. You've stayed authentic, genuine, kind and like sweet. You like you haven't become you know, so like. I want to talk to you about your personal branding and how you've been able to keep authenticity in your brand, for me, it started with defining my values.
Cayce:Brene Brown wrote a book, daring to Lead, and in it it has an exercise on how to define your values and one of the big questions is are they personal values or professional values? And it's like no, no, your values should be the same in all aspects of your life. And went through an exercise. I wrote down on paper all these different values and she says you can have two, you can't have 12. If you have 12, then that really doesn't give you a compass, right? You need to define it downtown, really specifically.
Cayce:I went through the exercise and I defined my values and they are authenticity and faith, and I draw upon that when I'm wondering which direction to go in branding for our organization or branding for myself. It's something I draw upon in times of stress and anxiety, like I mentioned, and I think that's really helped. So, as a first step for putting yourself out there, I think you've got to define who you want to be and what your brand to be, and your values are a great place to start. I mean any big organization you know that's branded in the world. You know there was a team behind it that thought about the purpose behind the branding, so you really need to think about your purpose for yourself.
Mila:I always say that I think branding and networking is important, no matter what profession you're in. I mean, a lot of people see lawyers and they're like, oh, you should sit there, keep your head down and build your hours. And lawyers do do that and they don't really grow and build and develop their brand and they don't go after finding new clients.
Ilona:At my firm I have people who like to go to social events network and they enjoy being around people. They can come up to anyone and talk to them and love mingling. And then there are those that do not feel comfortable just coming up to someone or going alone or with just with another person to an event and branding themselves. They'd rather attend a firm event or just go home or work on something. It's not their thing. So can you really force that if they don't enjoy it? I don't think so.
Mila:Well, my thought is I think that the people who don't like to socialize, who don't like to talk, are actually way better at networking, because people love to hear themselves talk. And someone like you or I, who like go in and just like talk to someone's ear off, could be annoying as hell, but someone who goes in, asks the question and listens to the other person speak is going to leave way more of an impression. So I always encourage introverts to get themselves out there. Maybe it's uncomfortable at first, but they don't have to talk. And I just think that, honestly, closed mouths don't get fed. If you don't brand yourself, if you don't advocate for yourself, whether a man or a woman, you're not going to get what you don't ask for.
Ilona:We have a saying in Russian, and I think there may be one in English as well right, the squeaky wheel gets the grease, Is there right?
Cayce:I am the introvert and I was speaking with my business development director just yesterday because I have a couple of weeks of travel coming up and I said, okay, I need the pep talk. Tell me how I walk into these rooms with people I don't know. And in one situation, maybe this could help listeners, because the one thing that's easiest for me is if I'm hosting the event. So if it's my company's event that I'm going to, then I feel like it's my wedding and everyone's there to see us. That's why they came so to walk up and for the icebreaker to be.
Cayce:Thank you so much for coming, introduce yourself and welcome and play host. That's so much more comfortable to me as opposed to going to an industry event with a cocktail hour with 300 people in a huge ballroom Like whew, that is not my cup of tea, but I do it as part of my job and I totally agree with you, amelia, that it is the art of asking questions. That's what I try to lean on, because I don't really know what to say. So it's what questions can I ask that are meaningful questions, not just pretty cloudy out there today?
Cayce:to get some people to open up and and to get to know them a little bit, and my business development director has coached me a lot on, you know, questions that I can use and ways I can enter those conversations to try to feel more comfortable. So what are those questions? Oh, I get no credit for any of this. Okay, jordan Reese gets all credit for this.
Cayce:If you're joining a session at a conference or you're joining someone at a breakfast table is to sit down, and her trick is don't let conversation lull, because if you sit down and you start and you just you know, look at your phone and then you want to look up and start talking and a group is already talking around you, it's really hard to insert yourself. So insert yourself, invite yourself from the moment you sit down to join the conversation and don't leave it. Because to be the outsider and leave and have to come back or try to come in middle of the conversation is even more difficult. And to just start by listening to what they're talking about and just pretend like you were there the whole time and join in or ask a question along the lines of how was breakfast this morning or how have the sessions been so far, where are you in from? And as you're introducing yourself. Oh, this is my favorite one. Her trick is, when they ask what you do, to say do you want the short version or the long version?
Cayce:You did that today with us Good word, short version or long version and it kind of most of the time people will give you permission to give the longer version in an introduction of yourself, because you're not pressed for time, and so then you can say five sentences about it instead of just your title. And then, when you reciprocate, you also give them permission to say more than just their title, five sentences about their title, and you get to know a little bit more about each other.
Ilona:I think I'm going to use that one, because when people ask me to talk about myself, I have this long, long story and I'm like am I saying too much or not?
Cayce:I think Well and it provides an opening. So after you say that, then go, then then put it back on them and I'm like what's your long story and what's your long story? And then you get. You really, hopefully will have some points of commonality. You can, you can launch from. If someone walks into a room where people are mingling, having drinks and talking, and they're in groups with those whom they know how do you just pop into their conversation, into their circle and become part of it?
Cayce:I'm not good at that, I am so here's my answer.
Ilona:Ok, please, I just come. That I am. So here's my answer. Okay, please, I just come in, I'll have a drink in my hand and I'll stand there for a minute if they're in the middle of conversation and then I'll introduce myself. Hi, I'm Alona. You know what's your name? That's how it gets started, and then people will start talking. Those who are not interested will leave the group and those who want to talk to me will talk to me and you go from there.
Mila:Here's kind of how I see it is. I don't know, I was not always an extrovert. I feel like it was not innate for me. I had to really build that in myself because I was so hungry, like I was so hungry to win. But I am not comfortable doing that. I have to amp myself up. But what I always remind myself is, and what I always tell my mentees, because I've had a lot of them I have one quote and I'll tell you the same thing Go after what you want. No pride, no shame, because what is the worst that can happen? We always think oh, they're going to think this of us, they're going to think that of us. We are not that important. No one will remember. They may judge us in the moment and then they'll forget about it and it doesn't matter. Worst case scenario like you don't get form a connection. Best case scenario you form a connection and have this great new contact. I agree.
Ilona:Kind of along the same lines what you said. My motor is like what do I have to lose? Okay, somebody doesn't want to talk to me, so what, I may never see them again. They ignore me. Who cares?
Mila:I'll go on and talk to someone else or you're not going to be everyone's cup of tea. I had a guy on Facebook the other day like someone. I had everyone on Facebook because I use it for like social networking and all of the stuff I don't really post a lot of kids on there, so I add whoever adds me. And this guy added me and then leaves a comment on one of my videos. He literally says you nauseate me Really, you make me so sick that I have to block you. And then he said my teeth give him nightmares, oh my God. And it took me like a second. I was like wow, like imagine, here I am spreading positivity and love and you're really sad and you're and you're sold that you hate me this much for nothing. You don't even know me. Why do you want to follow you if he hates you? But then he blocked me so I couldn't. I wanted to save the comment to her, like, be okay, remind me how. It was kind of humbling and kind of. I kind of need that shock value sometimes.
Cayce:I don't have trolls. Let me say this I don't have trolls online. That's another layer. So are you no more nice than you are? The other thing that I've had to come to terms with on the fear, like what's the worst, that you that would happen. I think I feel back to my middle school years where, like I could go sit at a table and kids would like scoot away from me or like just I was not super popular as a little kid and like elementary school was difficult, middle school was difficult and then high school started to like.
Cayce:I kind of came into my own a little more. But this fear of rejection and not being accepted, I think that's where it truly like comes from, and it's like you're a grown ass woman.
Mila:Get it together.
Cayce:Get it together. That's what it comes from and it's just like. So what if they walk away? First of all, they won't. People don't do that as adults. That does not happen with strangers at a conference.
Mila:I've never seen it. I've never experienced it, and most people enjoy having authentic conversations. Exactly.
Cayce:The other thing you can do if you don't want to go up to a full group of people is find someone on the outskirts who's a loner, because they might have a similar personality as you and walk up and just have a one-on-one and you could also just be like hey, I'm going to go get a drink at the bar, do you want?
Mila:to walk. You guys want to know my thing that I always do. I always find something I can compliment, like if it's shoes. I can't do fake compliments, but it's not fake. I find something I really like, like hey, I love your shoes, nice shoes. I'm Mila, but like you know, everyone's different. Some people are like very awkward, like why is this person complimenting? And obviously it's different if it's like a grown man.
Ilona:I can't really compliment like that you can always look at their watch and belts and shoes.
Mila:Yeah, I mean, it's just a way to like get that icebreaker and then after that it's much easier to engage in conversation did you ever have a situation where you're like, hey, I like your shoes and okay, great see you later.
Mila:Yeah, sometimes people are awkward about it, like not everyone wants to chat with me, and again at that of the day it's like okay, not everyone has to like me, that's okay, what? That's the worst thing that can happen. I mean, this man leaves me a nasty comment on my facebook and then blocks me and deletes it.
Mila:I'm so sorry about that, but it's like, okay, worst thing that can happen. He doesn't like me and I always say this to my kids. I say this to everyone people's actions towards you is more of a reflection of them and what they're going through at any given time than it is of you so you can't take that.
Ilona:I guess we're all grown up now, but it feels the same as you're on a playground and you're trying to make new friends.
Cayce:It does sometimes.
Ilona:And same thing. Children grow up and some will interact with you and be nice and some won't. So just part of life and it doesn't change as you grow from being a child to becoming an adult, I know so.
Mila:True, when you're a kid all that stuff is so traumatizing it like sticks with you. I bet you guys have like specific memories. I have specific memories of like being rejected or made fun of that.
Ilona:I'm sure everyone has. Today I was doing my five-year-old hair and she's like mommy, don't do this hairstyle. Because when you did braids here the other day and you connected them, I was made fun of on a playground and I thought her hair looked so cute, but she was sad that they were making fun of her. So, on one hand, why would they do that? But on another hand, it's good because she'll learn through this experience and it's the same as being rejected and learning how to be tough and not give a shit.
Mila:So funny story on that, because my son and I know we talked about piano. You said you put Ella in piano. She didn't like it and you didn't force her to keep going. I forced Daniel to keep going and now his teacher invited him to do a concert and he comes home he's like obviously I'm not doing it, mom, I'm like I'm sorry, who told you you have a choice? Like I'm sorry, who told you you have a choice, you are doing it? And he just refused. He couldn't eat dinner, he couldn't sleep all night. He was like what, if everyone laughs at me, I'm like then they'll laugh at you.
Mila:But if you're prepared, there's no reason you will fail In this family. When hard things come, we don't run from them, we run towards them and we prepare and we go at it. And then I was like okay, maybe I'm being a little harsh. So then, like one night before bed, he likes it when I like brush his hair back. And I was like sitting there, I was like you know, I don't expect you to do perfect, right? And he was just like what? I'm like yeah, you can go up there and like suck, like as long as you prepare, and that's your best. And if your best sucks, I'll still be proud of you. But if you don't try, and if you're like so scared of being rejected that you're just not going to try at all, then I'll see you as a failure and I will not be proud of you. I'll be super disappointed. And so after that it like clicked, and ever since then he doesn't even try to like talk me out of it. He's like yeah, I'm doing the concert.
Cayce:I see it in my four-year-old. She gets so frustrated trying to do a puzzle because she can't do it perfectly immediately, and I see my little self in her and I literally said to her this morning you don't have to do it perfect. It takes time to stand up, walk away, take a breath, come back and you'll be able to finish it. It's yeah, we've got to like. I want to give her some permission to just try really, really hard and do our absolute best and not feel like it has to be perfect I think it also comes down to loving yourself, right?
Ilona:if you love yourself, then what other people do will matter less, because you know you're. It doesn't take away from who you are and what you're worth. They just don't know who you are, and if they don't care to appreciate or learn about you, let it be it.
Cayce:You know that's it. That's what you said before that how someone treats your response to you says more about them than it ever does about you.
Ilona:Yeah, as it relates to us as adults and branding yourself and going to events. It's just having the confidence that you love yourself and it doesn't matter. That event should not change your self-perception or your self-confidence. I mean, it can take a stab at it, right? Nobody likes being ignored or nobody likes feeling they don't matter or they're not important. But ultimately, if you focus on better things you have in life when you leave that event and be grateful for other people that love you and having a home and a roof over your head and all the other great things, then that will just be a little part that will be gone in the past.
Mila:Well, the thing is in everything in life, right, you cannot succeed until you fail Like. You cannot just not try when it comes to anything. And that goes back to the whole thing of like. I think, no matter what profession you're in, you need to brand yourself, you need to promote yourself, and a lot of people especially women, I think more than men it's uncomfortable. It's uncomfortable to advocate for yourself and tell everyone I'm so great, this is everything I've accomplished. This is why I would be like a great asset to whatever it is that you're doing. But you have to do that because if you don't, no one will know your worth. Who else is going to advocate for you?
Ilona:So how do you brand yourself? What tools do you use?
Cayce:So networking is a big one. We've talked about that and I want to reframe networking for just a minute because from my perspective, it's more about relationship building than fostering longer term relationships with people. It's very rare from my side of the bar and in my business to walk up to someone cold a cold conversation at a networking hour, for them to need exactly what I'm offering and for me to be able to offer it. And I walk out with a client and I don't think I understood that as a young lawyer. That's not how it works. You meet people, you stay in touch, you have lunch next time you're in town. You follow each other on social media which I'll get into but you learn to be able to like what are their pain points and how can you help provide a value. And so for me it's developing those relationships and it's a long term play and I did not quite appreciate that when I started networking. So, along the lines of patience, it also takes time.
Cayce:Social media has also been a big one for our law firm and for me personally. After defining my values and knowing how I wanted to show up online, I connected with a community of professionals who are building their brand and promoting their brands on LinkedIn in particular. Some of them use TikTok and Instagram and Facebook as well, but it's primarily LinkedIn and my group is it's called Catalyst Community. It's primarily for my side of the bar no-transcript then. You're going to remember what so-and-so said in this Facebook post and so it's developing relationships there too. So this community has been. I've been able to learn from them. They're so much more advanced and further along in their promotion online than I am, but they've been really instrumental in telling me what works and what doesn't and how you how you frame going about having an online presence.
Mila:I think you've done great at building your online presence and incorporating your authenticity into that presence, because I've seen your posts and I mean I try to do the same thing, but you post about every aspect of life, not only professionally and but you also post about, you know, building yourself as a woman. You post about being a mom life not only professionally, but you also post about building yourself as a woman. You post about being a mom, about being a wife, about your faith, and I love the combination of everything because it does give people more of a magnifying glass on you as a human, and I read about this a lot that most people want to do business with a person, not a business.
Ilona:That's what I was just about to say yes, because I think people want to know who are you and that builds trust Over the years you'll meet a lot of people at many events and social media and whatever, and it's really hard to keep in touch with everyone and maintain a relationship, especially when you have a family, when you have a full-time job. So how do you do this? How do you actually have authentic relationships with people that you meet?
Cayce:One of the first things that I do is connect with someone on LinkedIn so that I'll see them in my feed and they will see me in theirs.
Cayce:It's what Amelia was saying before that we haven't seen each other in almost 10 years, it feels like. But we know what's going on in each other's lives and maybe that's much more superficial than actually calling and having phone conversations, but we're still on each other's minds. I think about you all the time. So that's one Sending a thank you email when you're done, like after the event for the you know five I had five really good conversations I'm just going to send a thank you email.
Cayce:I got their card. I'm going to send a thank you email and stay in touch and then I rely on my team from that point and we know where this person is based. It goes into our system. The next time I'm traveling to Chicago and I have an opening for lunch, it's like, okay, well, who are the people who are in Chicago that I could invite out? And my team houses the data and they share with me. So really good record keeping a really strong team to help me. But you know, really starting that foundation of making proactively reach out to make those connections right after the first conversation.
Mila:I do the same thing. It's funny that you say you know I get it every time. It's like my process whenever I network, I get everyone's cards. I send an email say it was great to meet you. Here's my contact info, let's stay in touch.
Mila:Then I add them on LinkedIn and my thing, like I'm always posting on LinkedIn and I've kind of put myself out there as like I am the employment law girl and I'm always posting about whenever an interesting law comes out. I'm like let me make a video, Let me do this. Or like a cool case that I do, let me make a video. So then, when people have employment issues like every single person on LinkedIn who has an employment issue, I have 7,000 followers they think of me first because I'm always in their face Annoying me while we're talking about employment law. But I mean that's kind of how, like, I've built my brand within the community. I mean, coming out of law school, I didn't know any lawyers, I didn't know what I was doing. I, you know, fell into employment law. I really liked it. It became my niche, my specialty. I did some PI at Tyson and Mendez, but that's how I built my brand, that's how I made myself known and if I hadn't done that, I wouldn't be known and I probably would be making a lot less money.
Cayce:Well, that's so important is that you talk about what you know, because we know a lot right and you've positioned yourself so well, especially when the updates come right, because not every lawyer, not every employer, not every employee, god knows, is following the law on what their rights are now and what the process needs to be and what the obligations are between an employee and employer. And you, coming on and doing those videos, you're a thought leader, you're sharing the information and you're sharing what you're an expert in. So, for people who want to start having more of a presence, talk about what you know, talk about what you're passionate about, what you're interested in, and it's infectious. It'll be remembered.
Ilona:We have some viewers who are either law students or want to become a lawyer one day. From your personal experience, what does it take to start from being a new associate at a firm to get to where you are today?
Cayce:Patience, I think, is the first thing, because when you look back now you think, in the grand scheme of life, 12 years, wow, you've come a really, really long way and I believe that I have and I'm super proud of what I've accomplished.
Cayce:I have and I'm super proud of what I've accomplished. At the same time, looking back being 26, 27, 28 years old 12 years felt like so far away and I just wanted, I wanted the success now, I wanted the financial stability now, I wanted the opportunity now and I certainly got it and I got it very quickly. Looking back, but in the moment it's just so hard to stay in the grind. Stick with the work, even though it's hard, see it through completion and then take on the next opportunity right, and you just want the bigger title right now. So it takes time and that's what Bob Tyson, the founder of our firm, shared with me when I was really young is that the opportunity is going to come. You just need to be patient and keep working really hard, and I did, and it's true, and I want to pass on that advice to the next generation.
Ilona:What's an expectation from new attorneys in terms of billable hours and the work they got to put in for at least the first two years, while they get their feet wet and understand how it all works?
Cayce:I think it's important to keep in mind that you've joined a profession and when you put in the hours, regardless of what the requirements are, you're investing in yourself because you're learning your profession and you're getting better and you're growing. And it often takes an hour or two more than your billable requirement in order to get the billable requirement. So let's say you have an eight-hour day requirement, you probably need to work 10 hours a day.
Ilona:I love what you've said about you're investing in yourself because it is part of training and learning, because their work product initially will not be as good as the partner level or a senior attorney who may know an answer right away and may take a new attorney, you know half an hour to two hours to find out how to do something.
Mila:So I have an interesting perspective because Casey and I worked together back when I was starting off as an associate. I think I started with Tyson Amenders my second year out of law school. It was my second job and I already had one baby, so I kind of was transitioning into being a mom and a lawyer at the same time and I remember Casey worked really, really hard and I was actually there when she was named partner and I remember your speech like it was yesterday. I really do Really.
Cayce:What did I say?
Mila:And it was like really like heartwarming to me, because I remember just thinking like this is the dream, and especially coming from, you know, russia, where I don't know I don't want to say there aren't a lot of opportunities but there aren't as many opportunities and seeing a young woman be named a partner at a firm. I mean I saw how hard she worked. She would come in early, she would leave late, sometimes she wouldn't leave, always working, always hustling, and you were from where I stood. You were an imperative part of the firm's growth. After the Howell case, tyson and Mendez won a really big case, the Howell case, and you want to talk a little bit about that kind of what that case entailed the long version or the short version the short version in 2011,.
Cayce:and the case held that injured plaintiffs are able to recover what their health insurance pays for their medical bills in their personal injury case. And we all have looked at medical bills in the past, right? So you'll see very often on a medical bill that a provider will charge $1,000, but the health insurance actually pays maybe $250 at the end of the day to resolve the medical claim. Those are contractually negotiated rates between the doctor and the health insurance company. The Howell case held that it's the $250 amount, what's actually incurred, what's actually paid in full satisfaction of those bills. That's what the plaintiffs allowed to recover in a personal injury suit and the law, of course, has evolved so much in the 14 years since that case. But it was a very big deal for the defense industry, for the insurance industry in California and in a traditionally very liberal, plaintiff-friendly state.
Ilona:I remember when that case came out. I actually practiced personal injury at that time and the last trial I did was in 2013 or 2014. It was a medical malpractice case and you know how a case was. It came into play, obviously, when it came to medical bills.
Mila:So that was Tyson Mendez. And then after that, you know, obviously a lot of you know insurance companies wanted Tyson Mendez to represent them and that happened in 2011. Casey came in in 2012. And they kind of really put you kind of front facing with all the clients. I remember which is also why you added so much value, because not everyone can do that and you were able to balance a lot at the time. You were still, you know, practicing as well, so you were doing that and you were doing that and you were doing the client facing stuff, bringing in cases, just like hustling on all ends.
Mila:And I remember, when they made you partner because we they had just exploded and you were able to manage all of that. And you said, you know, these guys say that like we believe in you and we'll help you grow, and they really mean it. And I remember, like with tears in your eyes, you said that I remember your exact speech, if you can believe it, because it had such an impact on me, because I like to me. At the time, my thought was okay, you work hard, you will accomplish it no matter what, and so, from my perspective, I really think that you have a lot of really great qualities your ability to manage a lot of things at once. I think your standard has always been excellence, from everything I've seen, and you don't really settle for anything below that, and, frankly, I think that's what any person who achieves great things really has. Those are all attributes, so first of all.
Cayce:That just like warms my heart so much, thank you. I'm like trying not to tear up, so thank you, I'm so glad and I do believe that. I do believe that if you work really, really hard and you promote yourself and you ask for it, right, it's not being working really hard and being meek in the corner and if that fits your personality and that's your style, fine. It was was not mine, is not mine. Um, I am a recovering perfectionist and there's been a lot of. So at the beginning, when I'm personally in charge of doing every little thing, it was easier to perform in that way because I had personal responsibility for every single little thing, and I still have personal. But it's on a much larger scale and I cannot that one human could not possibly run an organization of this size. So it's first trust in my team and that's developed over time.
Mila:And having a team you can trust.
Cayce:Yes, yes, having a team you can trust, and I have a lot of tenure in my with my direct reports, and so that's. It's a it really is a blessing and a luxury that not everyone has in today's market. At the same time, there comes a point where you have to realize that excellence is what you need to be forcing and focusing on, not perfection, and that sometimes done is better than perfect. And so, looking at a work product that someone will do now I might have done it different, I might have said it a little different, but before I even go to make changes, it's is what they've said wrong. No, it's not. So it's okay. You know, in in reviewing written work product, it's okay to stick to the standard of excellence. Let people keep their voice.
Cayce:It's not it's not all about me controlling every little thing. It's and it's I. In moments of really high anxiety, I want to control and I'm so lucky, particularly one team member will look at me and just be like we got this, and it's like she knows that that's the language she needs to use with me, to just tell me like, take a breath, you can trust us, we got this, and it's like she knows that that's the language she needs to use with me to just tell me, like, take a breath, you can trust us. We got this and I know they do, but that's my tendency is to. My coping mechanism is to go right back to the level of perfection and control.
Mila:You can't scale without letting go. I mean unfortunately, I listened to all these podcasts about growing businesses because I'm just a nerd, but that's one of the main things that I've learned like you have to let go, Don't let perfection be the enemy of progress.
Ilona:Oh, it's hard to do Like you can hear it all day long Listen to the books and your friends can tell you that. But when you care and you want to win and you know your clients are paying a lot of money and their life is in your hands, it's hard to not court or your motions or whatever it is and the settlement documents have to be done to a T.
Cayce:Of course I do not practice anymore in this role, I just manage the organization, and so it is. You know, does this PowerPoint explaining our benefits package, you know, and that's? I'm not saying that's less important, it's very important. That's our people's livelihood, that's our medical care. But I have to, I hire a team of experts who know this stuff and I need to let them operate within their sphere of expertise. And then someone told me recently and I just love it my friend, michelle Rao, who's actually a chief claims officer in an insurance company, said it's her job as the leader to drive the bulldozer, to get all of the obstacles out of your team members' way. And I'm like, ooh, I want to learn to be a bulldozer driver.
Mila:So I know you said one of your passion projects is issues in women's leadership, so tell us a little bit about that.
Cayce:Women come out of law school at rates, I think, higher than men these days. I think we've edged them out. Finally, I think we're coming out at over 50%. And then the female representation drops off in private practice at that point and then as you move up through leadership levels in law firms, you see it drop even more and more, and so a firm like yours is super, super special in this industry because of the position you've empowered women to take and you've taken for yourself and the platform you've made for others.
Cayce:And so I just very cognizant of the role that I play in the industry, but also, hopefully, for other women, kind of like you mentioned Amelia, just remembering a speech that I gave, because I remember my mentors and the women that I always looked up to giving a speech, and that's what we want to do is leave the profession better than we found it. So I'm cognizant of the drop-off rates for women as they move through leadership. I want to be advocates for women, to brand themselves, to speak up for themselves, to seek out and take opportunities when they arise. Do your very best work, put out excellent work, product, be the best. You can be, as cheesy as that may sound. You can be as cheesy as that may sound. So that's, yeah, I guess that's my position on on women in leadership, just kind of my mindset of being cognizant of the role that I play and using my platform to help others succeed as well.
Ilona:I think to be able to rise in the leadership role as a woman, you have to put family on hold for a while, because otherwise you won't be able to give that time and work as hard as you have or I have, and you were able to do it with the kids. I think you started early in those years.
Cayce:What do you think about that? I don't know if it's a must, but that was definitely my choice and that brought other challenges right, because I had my first child at 35. And you know there are other challenges. It takes on your body and you're just older getting up in the night than you are if you're in your 20s. And I have friends from high school and college who had kids right out of high school and right out of college and now they're like teenagers. It's wild. So, yeah, there's a definitely. I personally chose to hold on finding my career. I also hadn't met my husband yet, so that helped right. But yeah, so I was fortunate to and fortunate to find someone at the point in life where we did, where we were both ready and we felt both of our careers could support it.
Ilona:Yes, that's a good point you make. I mean same thing with me. I didn't find anybody till later, so I was focused on my career and it probably would have been regardless. But for those who haven't found that special person to have a family with a lot of women, who have all these dreams to have a family and a career and have it all but haven't found it look at it as a blessing because it gives you an opportunity to focus on your career and move up in a leadership role, if that's what you want, or just be good at what you do, so that you have skills, a skill set that you can use in the future and rely on yourself down the road, whether alone or with someone else.
Cayce:I mean, it's something I always looked up to you about, amelia, because I remember I can remember sitting in our conference room and you and I having a conversation about your son and how old he was and how many times he was up in the night and you were just ready to go and I sit there thinking to myself like I don't think I could do that, I don't think I'm cut out for that, and so there was a long time where, for several, several years, where I wondered if I would ever become a parent or if I wanted it, because I was so driven on the career side of things.
Mila:And then I think obviously I got a little older and I met my husband and it was very clear to me that that's what I think a lot of women feel that way, like they look at their lives as they are, which, when you're a lawyer, it's very busy, and they're like how am I gonna add a husband and a child to this crazy equation already? And the thing is, you can like, when it comes, you can handle it. I want to give you guys a little confession that I've actually never told anyone. This is a real thing and.
Cayce:I'm like embarrassed.
Mila:I'm embarrassed because now, looking back at it, like it wasn't my most proud moment. Granted, there were hormones. I got married really young. I was 21 and I started law school two days after I got married and my husband is 10 years older than me and it was like an Armenian thing and you know, like families. But I got out of law school we had been married like five years and everyone was like your husband's ready to have children, like he's waited because of you, like you need to get started. And you know, I think I was 24 at the time I like finished law school and I was like, okay, let's start trying, thinking it's going to take years. And I got pregnant right away. Like I finished.
Mila:I passed the bar in November and I found out I was pregnant in January and I was shocked and I didn't expect that to happen, which now, like I realize what a blessing it was because I struggled so much to get pregnant with my second one. But I remember coming into work the very first day I'm like a first year associate and I just found out I'm pregnant two months after I passed the bar and I always was an early bird, so it's like seven in the morning. There was only one other attorney there and he was like in his own office and I remember sitting down at my desk and I just started bawling. I just started crying, not happy bawling. I was like really fucking scared. And the guy comes in and he was like this little guy I remember him so well And's like what is going on, and I just like broke down to him Vlad doesn't even know this, my husband doesn't even know this and I was like I'm pregnant, like I'm never gonna make it as a lawyer. My whole career is ruined. I can't believe I went to law school and now I'm gonna have nothing because I'm gonna have this baby. And like how am I gonna do both? I'm not. So obviously I'm going to be a good lawyer because I'm going to try and be a good mom.
Mila:And I remember it so well because later I was so embarrassed that I like did this to this guy that I don't even know. He was like trying to trying to like make me feel better, and but he was just at a loss of words. But that was my reaction and now I'm so I've never admitted this to anyone, never talked about it, because I was so embarrassed that I like had this blessing of being pregnant, and that I just cried and was, like you know, cursing god for like giving me this child, because I was so driven and I thought it was going to destroy my career. At the end of the day, though, it gave me fuel because it made me want to. I was like you. You know what? Fuck this. I'll have both. I'm just going to have this baby.
Ilona:That's because you're, you, some people.
Cayce:But also I think it's totally normal to be afraid and question at that moment, because where had it been modeled for you? Where had you seen someone in their mid-20s, pregnant, just out of law school, starting their job, succeed in both? You're blazing a trail. It was never modeled for you. You had to go out and you chose to go out. You were given the blessing, the opportunity to go out and be the first one and do it in your circle, in your community. It's huge.
Mila:Thank you so much for joining us today. This has been an amazing conversation. It's been really fun. Thanks for having me.
Ilona:That brings us to the end of this episode of the Glamorous Grind. Thank you for spending time with us today.
Mila:We had a wonderful time hearing Casey's insights, and we hope you did too. Don't forget to hit that like button, subscribe and follow us on YouTube and wherever else you get your podcasts.
Ilona:And follow us on social media for all the behind the scenes, fun updates and maybe even some moments we didn't share during the episode and if you really want to show us some love, leave a review.
Mila:It helps us more than you know.
Ilona:All right, that's it for now.
Mila:Thanks for hanging out with us, and we'll see you next time, stay motivated, stay inspired and we'll catch you next Tuesday on the Glamorous Grind.
